〜ばそれまでだ / 〜たらそれまでだ
ba sore made da / tara sore made da
By Nihongo PathUpdated
Meaning
if …, that is the end of it; once …, it is all over
〜ばそれまでだ means "if X happens, everything is finished and nothing more can be done". それまで = "up to there". It shows that all the effort or value before X becomes meaningless: 死んでしまえばそれまでだ (once you die, that's it). A common variation is 〜と言ってしまえばそれまでだ ("if you put it that way, there's nothing more to say").
Both speech and writing. Typical topics: money and possessions, passwords and data, preparation and health, arguments. It often follows a concessive clause like どんなに〜ても or いくら〜ても.
Formation
V = verb, N = noun, A = adjective.
Vば + それまでだVたら + それまでだSet phrase: 〜と言ってしまえばそれまでだ(が)Often: いくら/どんなに〜ても、〜ばそれまでだ
Visual diagram
- どんなに財産があってもhowever much (concession)
- 死んでしまえばif X happens
- それまでだthat is the end of it
Natural examples
どんなに財産があっても、死んでしまえばそれまでだ。
どんなにざいさんがあっても、しんでしまえばそれまでだ。
However much wealth you have, once you die, that is the end of it.
The classic proverb-like use: wealth means nothing after death.
パスワードを忘れたらそれまでだから、必ずメモしておこう。
パスワードをわすれたらそれまでだから、かならずメモしておこう。
If you forget the password, that is it, so be sure to write it down.
たらそれまでだ with a practical warning about passwords.
いくら準備しても、当日に体調を崩せばそれまでだ。
いくらじゅんびしても、とうじつにたいちょうをくずせばそれまでだ。
However much you prepare, if you fall ill on the day, it is all over.
Preparation is wasted if you fall ill on the day: a lament about fragility.
運が悪かったと言ってしまえばそれまでだが、対策は必要だ。
うんがわるかったといってしまえばそれまでだが、たいさくはひつようだ。
If you put it down to bad luck there is nothing more to say, but we still need countermeasures.
〜と言ってしまえばそれまでだが is a set rhetorical move.
どんなに高価な時計でも、落として壊せばそれまでだ。
どんなにこうかなとけいでも、おとしてこわせばそれまでだ。
However expensive the watch, drop it and break it and that is the end of it.
どんなに〜でも + ばそれまでだ.
Similar grammar and the difference
"Once X happens, an unstoppable bad process follows". ばそれまでだ says things simply end; たら最後 says things go from bad to worse. Compare side by side
Same ば but a completely different meaning: "precisely because". Compare side by side
"I will simply …": a calm alternative. それまでだ is about an ending, not an alternative. Compare side by side
Common mistakes
- ✗
- パスワードを忘れればそれまでだから、書いておこう。
- ✓
- パスワードを忘れたらそれまでだから、書いておこう。
- Why
- Both ば and たら are grammatical, but with a momentary event like 忘れる, たら sounds more natural in speech.
- ✗
- 勉強すればそれまでだ。
- ✓
- 勉強しなければそれまでだ。
- Why
- The condition must be the undesirable event that ends everything; 勉強する is not such an event.
- ✗
- 彼が来ればそれまでだ。（意味：彼が来れば十分だ）
- ✓
- 彼が来れば十分だ。
- Why
- それまでだ does not mean "that is enough"; it means "it is all over".
The clause before it is the fatal event: dying, forgetting, breaking, losing. 〜と言ってしまえばそれまでだ is used to admit that a blunt summary is true before adding a "but". The tone is resigned or cautionary, which is why it pairs naturally with advice (〜ておこう).
JLPT N1 tips
On the exam
- Look for いくら / どんなに〜ても before the blank and a fatal event in the ば clause.
- Distractors: たら最後, ばこそ, までだ. たら最後 needs an ongoing bad consequence in the second clause; ばそれまでだ ends the sentence.
- In 文法形式の判断 the blank is usually the whole それまでだ; do not confuse with それきりだ.
Frequently asked questions
What does 〜ばそれまでだ / 〜たらそれまでだ mean?
if …, that is the end of it; once …, it is all over. 〜ばそれまでだ means "if X happens, everything is finished and nothing more can be done". それまで = "up to there". It shows that all the effort or value before X becomes meaningless: 死んでしまえばそれまでだ (once you die, that's it). A common variation is 〜と言ってしまえばそれまでだ ("if you put it that way, there's nothing more to say").
How do you form 〜ばそれまでだ / 〜たらそれまでだ?
Vば + それまでだ / Vたら + それまでだ / Set phrase: 〜と言ってしまえばそれまでだ(が) / Often: いくら/どんなに〜ても、〜ばそれまでだ. V = verb, N = noun, A = adjective.
When is 〜ばそれまでだ / 〜たらそれまでだ used?
Both speech and writing. Typical topics: money and possessions, passwords and data, preparation and health, arguments. It often follows a concessive clause like どんなに〜ても or いくら〜ても.
What is the difference between 〜ばそれまでだ / 〜たらそれまでだ and 〜たら最後 / 〜たが最後?
"Once X happens, an unstoppable bad process follows". ばそれまでだ says things simply end; たら最後 says things go from bad to worse.
What is the difference between 〜ばそれまでだ / 〜たらそれまでだ and 〜ばこそ?
Same ば but a completely different meaning: "precisely because".
What is a common mistake with 〜ばそれまでだ / 〜たらそれまでだ?
Wrong: パスワードを忘れればそれまでだから、書いておこう。 Right: パスワードを忘れたらそれまでだから、書いておこう。 Both ば and たら are grammatical, but with a momentary event like 忘れる, たら sounds more natural in speech.
Quick check
いくら貯金しても、病気で働けなくなれ（ ）。